All apologies….
Amends Class 101
What not to say: “I’m sorry that you feel hurt/insulted/injured/etc.” 
What to say: “I’m sorry that what I said/did/etc hurt you.” 
What not to say: “I will do whatever it was that I just kind of apologized for because that’s just who I am.”
What to say: “I endeavour to not do that to you again, because I am truly sorry I hurt you.”
I just have to remember that I’m not responsible for another’s actions. I can only control what I do. I am responsible for my honesty. I am responsible for my amends. I am responsible for my forgiveness.
By the way, do you know what forgiveness is for? I’ll give you a hint; it’s in the word.
Forgiveness is for giving. I’ll have to remember that today. 
OR…instead of deconstructing someone’s apology - you could say “Hey, it took a lot of nads to do that.” And move on with life.
Tracy said this on May 3rd, 2005 at 12:08 am
It doesn’t take a single nad to apologize for how someone else feels. Amends/apologies are about what we do/say/etc, not about how someone else feels. That was my point. For me to apologize about how you feel about something is pretty much meaningless. It isn’t an apology at all. It’s more of an evasion of responsibility.
Dan said this on May 3rd, 2005 at 7:26 am
If YOU feel it’s meaningless to say such a thing, then for you it IS. For me it wasn’t - it was showing that I did consider how Jenni felt. Keep in mind, Dan, that both of us felt the other was wrong in this instance - I just actually had the grace to say I was sorry she felt that way - that I was sorry things got blown out of proprotion.
The fact that you can’t even take that - and sit there and dissect my apology shows how petty YOU are, and just perpetuates the bad feelings.
I believe Boston had a rather creative analogy regarding an olive branch - you might think about it.
Tracy said this on May 3rd, 2005 at 7:34 am
I think we have to give one another a certain amount of space to learn from our own mistakes, and from our friends’. I agree with everything Dan wrote except the last line…and I would have said that 10 years ago.
Since, I’ve learned to listen for the intent more than interpret from my own perspective. And yes, kiddos, I still screw that up sometimes. I don’t think I did this weekend, Tracy does, and being right about that is not going to make either of us a better person.
I think we need to be open to feedback when it is offered in earnest, even when we cannot agree with it.Something good prompted it - some concern for the other person, or a need to BE a better person. And despite all the hurt and harm we’ve been through, I read Tracy’s words to indicate both.
People share time and space, violations occur, and when they do, we can’t just “take it back” - although sometimes, it really is satisfying to say, “I really screwed up, I really caused harm, and I will do my best to make things better. And Dan makes another cogent point…when something is harmful to others, we do owe it to ourselves and others to try to do better…it really isn’t enough to say, “I’m just a beligerant, belllicose bitch, my father and Mrs. Bryant did that to me.” Because it’s true of me, but it’s too harmful to others when I don’t keep trying to be better. Having fewer failures and having less fall-out is about the best I can muster. Some days, it works.
Dan’s note about trying to be more considerate is valid -
If I could fix one thing about all of this, it would be people’s hanging on how things are said, and they’d be working harder on interpreting the good in each other. We all have faults, and that’s no reason to impose them on one another when we could be kinder than is required based on another’s behavior.
I thank Tracy for extending a sincere apology for having hurt someone. She didn’t word it the way I might have, but I heard her saying she was no longer taking “first focus” on herself, she was truly reaching out to someone in her best way, and I want that to be enough for now.
And I want DH to know that when friends are insensitive, it’s very right to call us on it, and it’s very right to expect us to acknowledge that.
And if I didn’t already have too many gawdamned
men in my life, I’d give DH a run for her money on hers. I think he’s awesome.
boston said this on May 3rd, 2005 at 8:26 am
All I’m saying is that there is a big difference between saying “I’m sorry that I hurt you” and saying “I’m sorry that you feel hurt.” Saying “I’m sorry that I hurt you” takes responsibility for hurting someone else and trying to make it right. Saying “I’m sorry that you feel hurt” puts the responsibility on another person and takes no responsibility for my actions.
This is not common knowledge so it’s not like I’m capping on just you, Tracy, although what has transpired is what prompted me to post what I did. I learned how to make proper amends when I got into recovery in 1991, and I didn’t learn it out of some magnificent moral virtue. I learned about amends because my life was fucked and I had to try a different way to live….one that preferably worked. The way we are taught to make amends in AA is to take responsibility for our actions and the pain they caused someone else AND to let them know that we will do our best not to do it again.
Another saying in AA is “Take from us what you want and throw the rest out the window…but don’t throw it too far. You may need it sometime.”
Dan said this on May 3rd, 2005 at 12:32 pm
I may not have been in AA, Dan - and I may never have damaged relationships in my life to the point that I need someone to tell me how to word an apology to take the responsiblity on myself - But make no mistake - that apology was worded exactly as I meant it to be.
I AM sorry that Jenni felt hurt. Up until this weekend, I considered her a friend - and even if she wasn’t, I would still be sorry she was hurting, simply because I’m not someone who enjoys people being in pain.
However - I also believe people need to take responsibility for their own actions - in other words - if you can’t take it, don’t dish it out. You are both grown adults, and you both engaged in inflicting just as much hurt on me as you apparently felt yourself.
And yet - I didn’t see ANY note of apology from either of you - just criticism of my apology to Jenni.
So - Take from that what you want, and throw the rest out the window. Either way - I’m done with this.
Tracy said this on May 3rd, 2005 at 2:26 pm
Oh, I’m completely aware that you worded your “apology” exactly the way you wanted it. And thus, it is not really an apology…getting tired of saying that… It’s kind of like saying, “I’m sorry that your mother died.” I didn’t kill your mother. It’s just expressing sympathy. Just because there is a “sorry” in a sentence does not make it an apology.
What did I dish out? I just called you on your shit. I didn’t insult you or call you names. When you attack me or my family and I call you on it, I didn’t “inflict” any hurt on you. You called it on yourself. You are not the injured party here, Tracy. You started this whole mess. Don’t blame us for it.
And what should I apologize to you for? For not agreeing with you? For calling you on your shit? For standing up you when you attack someone else?
No one started this fiasco but you. I didn’t call you a bald faced liar. I didn’t make any comments about not letting the door hit you on your way out. Only one person had the my way or the highway tone in their posts. It wasn’t me. It wasn’t Jenni. It wasn’t Boston or girl.
We all have our shit. All of us. We can choke on it and complain about the smell. We can even blame someone else for our shit. But we can also use our shit for good purposes….fertilizer if you will.
Everything that I said to you in these posts, I have had someone else or myself say to me. Everyone I know has at one time or another been faced with the grim reality that “Holy shit, maybe I was wrong….” “Maybe there is a better way.” Sometimes we have to look at what the common denominator is in the problems in our life. Sometimes, maybe, just maybe, the six people who are telling us we may be wrong may be right.
Food for thought.
Dan said this on May 3rd, 2005 at 3:15 pm
Ok, let’s review the facts.
1.) I said Jenni did a shit thing. But that I understood.
2.) Jenni went off ON ME.
3.) Jenni and I worked it out.
4.) After working it out with Jenni, I go back to find ANOTHER post on the subject - I don’t care when it was posted - it was after I started the discussion with her, probably before it ended - but either way - I found it AFTER she and I had supposedly patched things up.
5.) I posted a reflection ABOUT MYSELF AND WHO I AM - Not directed at either of you - About MYSELF.
6.) You and Jenni start bashing me for everything I said. If you want to call that “calling me on my shit” - then I say - yes, that is attacking me. I said “This is who I am”. You said (paraphrased) “That sucks!”. SO…how is that NOT attacking me, exactly, Dan?
7.) From there it went downhill until *I* closed the post to end it, and tried to knock this all off - which obviously WASN’T good enough for you, since you’re now continuing it here.
What exactly is your beef, Dan? That I called Jenni a liar? She lied. I have proof of that. That I said leaving her job on a week’s notice was a shit thing to do? She agreed that it was. I also said I SUPPORTED her choice. So where, exactly, did I attack you?
Tracy said this on May 3rd, 2005 at 4:32 pm
OH, let us us not forget that in between 4 and 5 - I LET IT DROP. I did NOT respond to Jenni, even though I thought it sucked.
Tracy said this on May 3rd, 2005 at 4:33 pm
Can we just let it drop already? Tracy has said what she felt she had to say. Did I agree with her apology? No. In fact, it was more a slap in the face than anything else she has said to me thus far in all of this, but oh well. Life goes on. I know now that there is no way I could ever be friends with her after seeing who she really is. I don’t need friends like that in my life.
I love you babe, for all the wisdom you impart in my life and the lives of others. I would go down fighting for you, as I know you would for me, but I think it’s time to let this drop. The more energy we spend on this matter, the more power we are giving to Tracy to feed her ego. I refuse to do that any more.
Boston, I may be out of shape, but I’d give YOU a real run for your money if you came after my man!
Or maybe we could just share him. Yeah! You get him one week, I get him the next.
D? Whatcha think?
Daisyhead said this on May 3rd, 2005 at 5:05 pm
Wait -excuse me - Feed MY ego? This from the people who took a post ABOUT ME, and made it all about them?
This from someone who thinks it’s fine for her to throw tantrums at people, and it should just be excused away?
Yeah, Gods forbid you take a good long look at your own actions, Jenni.
Tracy said this on May 3rd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
Great steak tonight babe! Thanks for cooking a wonderful dinnner.
Daisyhead said this on May 3rd, 2005 at 5:33 pm